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 Blaziken to uber, Support or Disagree?

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ninetalescommander
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PostSubject: Blaziken to uber, Support or Disagree?   Sun Jun 12, 2011 5:41 pm

As pretty much every competitive battler knows, the Pokemon Blaziken has recently been sent to the Uber Tier and apparently, these are Smogon's reasons

1. The ability speed boost. I believe this is the main reason as it gives Blaziken an amazing speed stat after just a couple of turns
2. It gained the ability to learn Hight Jump Kick which in 5th Gen got a boost from 100 to 130 which gives Blaziken the ability to inflict alot of damage on loads of Pokemon
3. Apparently it allows Blaziken to sweep a team quite easily when used correctly.

So do you agree with this decision or do you oppose it? I actually cannot decide wherever I support this decision or not because I have done some research on this matter and i've discovered that Blaziken with speed boost does have a few limitations when it comes to legality such as the in-ability to learn Thunderpunch.

Thanks for reading and I look forward to your replies
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PostSubject: Re: Blaziken to uber, Support or Disagree?   Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:33 pm

Truthfully Ninetales I am not sure either. I am leaning towards not agreeing because banning pokes because of abilities usually does not make sense to me. While it's true that Blaze received a few new perks like high jump kick, most of what I read in smogon was mostly Speed boost. Don't get me wrong speed boost is great on Blaze. That with swords dance can make him deadly REALLY quick. However I still believe that he can be dealt with if played correctly. his defenses are still okay but not unstoppable and he's still weak to 4 types( I may have missed one lol). Speed boost does allow set up quicker and more open spots for offensive moves, instead of agility, swords dance, but I'm still not convinced that Blaze should be Uber in my opinion.

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Elements
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PostSubject: Re: Blaziken to uber, Support or Disagree?   Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:44 pm

Don't forget that Blaziken is an extremely good Baton Passer with Speed Boost and BPs better than Ninjask and can allow something else to easily sweep if it can't

But anyway, I disagree with all Blazikens being banned but I don't really care too much about Speed Boost Blazikens since I had a lot of trouble with them on PO and I'm kinda sick of having to deal with them. Anyway, I can still use Combusken Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Blaziken to uber, Support or Disagree?   Sun Jun 12, 2011 10:30 pm

BW failed to acknowledge the fact that a female Speed Boost Torchic (and its evolutions) are illegal, implying the fact that it can't get any egg moves, and therefore be unable to Baton Pass as of now.

And even then, I don't really have a problem with Blaziken has Speed Boost considering speed is rarely an effecting factor with me, I expect to be slower.. pretty much always. In fact, they will likely waste a move slot for Protect, giving me some advantages.
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PostSubject: Re: Blaziken to uber, Support or Disagree?   Sun Jun 12, 2011 10:33 pm

Disagree
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Elements
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PostSubject: Re: Blaziken to uber, Support or Disagree?   Sun Jun 12, 2011 10:33 pm

Well, Baton Passing Speed Boost Blazikens were everywhere in PO's Dream World tier...
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PostSubject: Re: Blaziken to uber, Support or Disagree?   Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:13 am

I think a Speed Boost Blaziken is awesome, and should be used! I don't see why people are wasting energy complaining about Blaziken when they can just as easily think of an idea of how to counter it. I can think of lists of ideas! Heart Swap, Pshyc Up, Trick Room, Gastro Acid, Skill Swap and paralyzing Blaziken to list a few. If people put more effort into solving the problem rather than whine about it, I think people would use Blaziken less because they would be tired of falling for the same trick. I thought of an interesting set that I would use btw:

Blaze Kick
High Jump Kick
Protect
Bulk Up/Swords Dance

Basically, when you know they are going to switch, you can use Bulk Up (If you think you are gonna stay alive for a while) or Swords Dance (unsure about staying alive). Then use Protect. By then you should have +1 attack/defence and +2 speed (Bulk Up) or +2 attack/speed (Swords Dance). You can then attack with very good stats. If not, Blaze Kick and High Jump Kick can still cover a lot of the types.
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PostSubject: Re: Blaziken to uber, Support or Disagree?   Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:15 am

It's not the fact that Blaziken isn't hard to counter, it's the fact that it's a great Baton Passer. And while you're setting up all of those attacks, you'll most likely be dead.

I pretty much agree with anything Smogon bans. (Except Drizzle+Swift Swim, but that's a different story.) But I also disagree with all Blaziken's being banned, but it wouldn't make sense if half of the Blazikens are banned, and half are not, so I guess I see why.
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Elements
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PostSubject: Re: Blaziken to uber, Support or Disagree?   Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:13 pm

Oh, and besides countering, it's also because Blaziken "overcentralizes" the metagame basically meaning that everyone has to prepare specifically with certain Pokemon just to counter it.

Also, @ Cmndr, those moves kind of work, but how are you going to execute that? What's going to survive long enough to paralyze it? After a Swords Dance, Blaziken can 2HKO Swamperts with one Hi Jump Kick if not OHKOing (depending on how it's EVed). And don't say Focus Sash since Stealth Rock breaks that... and BTW only Manaphy can Heart Swap and it's Uber so... good luck with that
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ninetalescommander
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PostSubject: Re: Blaziken to uber, Support or Disagree?   Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:31 pm

Cmndrkool321 wrote:
I think a Speed Boost Blaziken is awesome, and should be used! I don't see why people are wasting energy complaining about Blaziken when they can just as easily think of an idea of how to counter it. I can think of lists of ideas! Heart Swap, Pshyc Up, Trick Room, Gastro Acid, Skill Swap and paralyzing Blaziken to list a few. If people put more effort into solving the problem rather than whine about it, I think people would use Blaziken less because they would be tired of falling for the same trick. I thought of an interesting set that I would use btw:

Blaze Kick
High Jump Kick
Protect
Bulk Up/Swords Dance

Basically, when you know they are going to switch, you can use Bulk Up (If you think you are gonna stay alive for a while) or Swords Dance (unsure about staying alive). Then use Protect. By then you should have +1 attack/defence and +2 speed (Bulk Up) or +2 attack/speed (Swords Dance). You can then attack with very good stats. If not, Blaze Kick and High Jump Kick can still cover a lot of the types.

See, that's a problem with that set, your completely walled by Dragon-Flying types and we all know how common those are in OU
Sure, you could drop Protect for Stone Edge but then your losing the free set ups with Speed boost
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Elements
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PostSubject: Re: Blaziken to uber, Support or Disagree?   Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:14 pm

Actually Ninetales, a +1 Adamant Hi Jump Kick with a Life Orb does at least 77.9% damage to Salamence which KOs after Stealth Rock. Also, +2 Life Orb Hi Jump Kick does a minimum of 77.2% to Dragonite (with 252 HP EVs) which also KOs after Stealth Rock. An Impish Dragonite (252 HP/252 Def) takes a minimum of 55.2% from Hi Jump Kick (Life Orb and +2 Atk) which is a 2HKO.

Basically after a Swords Dance Blaziken can 2HKO everything not named Slowbro (which is probably it). Having Flare Blitz and Hi Jump Kick as STAB moves with base 120 and base 130 power make it insanely powerful.

This video should explain most of it.
Video:
 

Don't get me wrong; I really don't want Blaziken to be Uber, but it's too powerful and with good proof...
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JimmyCrystal
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PostSubject: Re: Blaziken to uber, Support or Disagree?   Sun Jun 19, 2011 4:09 pm

Well, first off, mold breaker anyone?

Pinsir has a chance to get bumped up to ou for this gen, and rampardos might be more used. however, this won't stop speed boosts, and won't help with weather unless (I think) the weather inducing pokemon switches in to him.

I think that there should be an unprecedented split: speed boost blaziken is uber, whereas blaze blaziken is not; same with politoed/ninetales/vulpix.

EDIT: "Won't stop speed boosts"
I mean, it wont negate standing speed boosts, ie, blaziken will stop gaining speed if pinsir is out, but he'll still have any speed boosts prior to when pinsir was switched in.


Last edited by JimmyCrystal on Sun Jun 19, 2011 4:10 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : ^see above)
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Elements
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PostSubject: Re: Blaziken to uber, Support or Disagree?   Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:40 pm

Um... actually Mold Breaker doesn't work that way. It only works if the opponent's ability interferes with your attack, like Levitate, Volt Absorb, Water Absorb, Flash Fire, Sap Sipper, etc. It does not prevent other abilities from working. Therefore, Speed Boost would continue to work.
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PostSubject: Re: Blaziken to uber, Support or Disagree?   Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:35 pm

Thanks for the clarification on that. I wonder what other abilities don't work the way that I think they do...
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