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 Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]

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PeregrineMuon
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PostSubject: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Sun Nov 07, 2010 3:56 pm

Hi! The goal here is to simply provide a space for bouncing around some new sets that people would like to get feedback on. Essentially, this is a realm for Theorymon. Couldn't find a place designated for this elsewhere, so...DA DUM!
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Sun Nov 07, 2010 4:06 pm

To start it off, I'd like to see what y'all think of this set.

Dragonite @ Life Orb/Salac Berry
[Multiscale] [-Def, +Sp Att] [252 Sp. Att, 252 Speed, 4 HP]
- Claw Sharpen
- Dragon Rush
- Focus Blast / Thunder
- Gale

The general idea of this set, at least the way I'm seeing it, is to bring it in as an early-to-mid game setup sweeper and smash things with a mixed set. The crux of the set is the fact that you pack moves that normally aren't seen on a Mixnite, giving you something that many sets lack: surprise. The way I'm seeing things, that's exactly what an early game sweeper needs. The Claw Sharpen allows you to smack things around on the physical side, even without EV investment, while simultaneously allowing for the use of high power, low accuracy special moves.

Does anyone have any feedback on this? A rating on a scale of one to ten in terms of practicality and such? Ways to improve? Alterations to moveset or item?
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Sun Nov 07, 2010 5:00 pm

Here's another one.

Zuruzukin @ Lefties/Lum Berry/Leichi Berry
[Intimidate] [Adamant] [252 Att, 252 Sp. Def, 4 HP]
- Fake Out
- Substitute
- Focus Punch
- Head Smash

This is a lead Zuruzukin. Fake Out to break sashes and sturdies, Substitute so that you can Focus Punch, and Head Smash the resistance. Lefties is probably the best bet to go with, as Lum berry may be incredibly useless with substitute abuse. If you want to be outlandish, you could run a Leichi Berry, allowing you to sub down once, KO the opposing lead, switch out, and then, when you come in the next time, you sub all the way down to your berry, proceeding to smash things even more throroughly. Rock/Fighting gives you excellent coverage, and, as far as I can think, the only thing that resists the combo is Goruguu, the Ghost/Ground type.
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Sun Nov 07, 2010 7:04 pm

@ dragonite set, good but i would prefer 100% accuracy, so would sacrifice a little power for it, but thats just me.

@ zuruzukin set, really interested to see how this would fair, altho its success rate would prob be close to 50/50 since some subs may not last one turn, thus never allowing for focus punch set up, maybe a sleep inducing move if possible would be good there too.

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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Sun Nov 07, 2010 7:32 pm

The Claw Sharpen is pretty much what allows for the moves I listed. After a Claw Sharpen, which boosts accuracy one stage (30%), Gale, Thunder, and Focus Blast go up to a respectable 91% accuracy. Another merit of this set is that it is fully capable of handling both Blissey and Heatran after a single boost. The Thunder is there to ensure the KO on Gyara.

Yeah, that's definitely the downside of the Zuruzukin set, but the fact that most leads will spend the first turn setting up SR, combined with Intimidate, significant Sp Def investment, and sound base defenses leads me to believe that this could very well turn out to be more than 50/50. I would have to actually test that, though.
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Sun Nov 07, 2010 7:46 pm

I dont want to plan ahead too much with 5th gen. With all the powerfull new pokemon, I wonder: will the current threats really be all that threatening anymore?

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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Sun Nov 07, 2010 8:06 pm

Some of them will be, I'm sure. Others, not so much. I mean, if you think about it, Gyarados and Gengar have been forces of nature since Gen I and Tyranitar since Gen II. Some things don't change. Others, of course, will. But since some sense of continuity between generations is inevitable, it makes sense to me to base 5th gen sets on what I currently know of the fourth gen metagame. Even if my predictions turn out incorrect, the sets can always be modified to suit what needs arise. The purpose of putting forward these sets is more to get at the validity of the general ideas and strategies behind the sets, rather than the actual practicality of the sets themselves.
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:01 pm

I'm not sure of how well that Zuruzukin will do with all those Roopushin flying around. =/


Last edited by PokeWorldDP on Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:25 pm

That's quite true. I'm going to run the damage calcs on that, but Roopushin will certainly be very threatening to this set, and will probably force a switch. That's where a solid Roopushin counter will come in very handy.
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:29 am

There very good sets peregrine, hadnt realised claw sharpen also raised accuracy (my bad) you should post vids of them when you have to show how succesful they were in practice.

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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:13 pm

Thanks. Yeah, that would probably be a good idea. I just need some way to do the recordings. I have no software or hardware to do so.
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:41 am

Mind if I try the Dragonite set out?
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Sat Nov 13, 2010 5:00 pm

That would be awesome! I'd love to know how that goes! Are you going to go with Thunder or Focus Blast?
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Sat Nov 13, 2010 7:10 pm

Great Ideas buddy and like you said some pokes will always be beast in my opinion, but some will change in terms of threat level and usage ( Ditto being one that sticks out with its new ability). It'll be interesting to see.

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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Sat Nov 13, 2010 7:33 pm

Heh, both Thunder and Focus Blast and without Gale...

Gale just isn't reliable enough IMO
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:15 pm

Alright. lol Cool. What are you testing it on? Pokemon-Online?
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Sun Nov 14, 2010 5:10 pm

Yep.

Although all I see are Sandstorm teams with Tyrantiar, Doryuuzu, Skarmory, and Burungeru -_-
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Mon Nov 15, 2010 4:27 pm

Yes, unfortunately, the Pokemon community seems to be rather blighted with a dearth of creativity. Anyway, here's another set for you guys. I actually made this one over the summer, and, not to jam on my own instrument, but this thing makes a better anti-lead than Machamp. It was designed for fourth gen battling, though, so I'm not sure if it's as effective as it used to be.

Dusknoir @ Expert Belt / Lum Berry
[Pressure] [Brave] [252 Att, 252 Sp. Att, 4 HP]
-Shadow Sneak
-Ice Punch
-EQ
-HP Grass

The awesome thing about this set is that whenever people see a Dusknoir, their programmed instinct is to taunt it, fearing the WoW. This means that you can effectively take down all of the common leads without them getting off anything other than a taunt with only a couple of exceptions (Metagross and Roserade). The EVs and the Expert Belt allow you to 2HKO Swamperts with Hp Grass, even after factoring in lefties. Also, because people will almost always expect WoW, there is a good chance that they will switch in their Heatran right off the bat, which, of course, is easily dispatched with an EQ. Anyway, I thoroughly recommend trying this set if you want a pwnful anti-lead.
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:15 pm

Here's another lead. Probably the best word for this one is "risky".

Tsunbeaa (that's the new polar bear thing) @ Whatever berry gives you HP Grass
[Swift Swim] [Adamant]
-Encore
-Focus Punch
-Natural Gift
-Yawn/Toxic/Return/Night Slash/Sleep Talk

Obviously, this one has it's flaws, and really falls hard into the novelty club. Really only works against something that's definitely going to set up Stealth Rocks (Or Smeargle). The point is to Encore the SR the Focus Punch the incoming switch in. Another plus that this set has is the fact that it's kinda designed to take down Politoed leads with the new Drizzle ability. You outspeed with Swift Swim, and KO (I think) with Natural Gift.

Next job: counter-lead to Sandstormers.
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:56 pm

That would be the Liechi Berry...

And no STAB moves? =/ In the last slot why not Icicle Drop?
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:25 am

No good reason, now that I think about it. I put the moves in the fourth slot either because they are good for switch-ins (Toxic and Yawn), or because they often deal super-effective damage to other leads. Night Slash is on there in particular for Azelf, or any of the other elves, for that matter, depending on tier. The thing about packing an ice move is that you only really need to pack it to hit things like Aerodactyl, at least if you're a lead. But Aerodactyl, 9 times out of 10, will go with SR the first turn. As a result, you still stick with the Encore+Focus Punch strategy to hit the switch in. The only other time Ice will hit super effective on a common lead (that I can think of, at least) is with Roserade, but that's going to be a lose-lose situation without Sleep Talk, since, 9 times out of 10, Roserade will Sleep you the first turn in order to set up. This means that without the lum berry or chesto berry, you don't stand a chance, even if you CAN OHKO it with a STAB Icicle Throw. On an unrelated note, I have no idea why I even bothered mentioning Return.
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:27 am

And thank you for the clarification on the berry, by the way.
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Sat Nov 20, 2010 6:52 pm

Alright, I've come up with a tentative antilead counter to all of the sandstorm stuff. Never actually thought that it's new ability would actually be useful.

Sceptile @ Petaya Berry
[Unburden] [Timid] [40 Def, 220 Sp. Att, 248 Spd] [31 30 31 30 31 30]
-Substitute
-Giga Drain
-HP Fire
-Focus Blast

The general idea here is to set up substitute, fire off attacks, and activate your berry somewhere in that process. At that point, you're functioning off of a +1 Sp Att and +2 Spd boost. This means that you can outspeed Doryuuzu and very likely KO it. Damage calculators haven't been updated yet for fifth gen, at least not that I've seen, so I couldn't run any calcs on Doryuuzu. However, if you find that the opponent leads off with Tyranitar, then you don't want to hold to the subbing down strategy. The most important thing to note here is that even without a boost, you are a solid 6 points faster than the fastest scarfed Ttar out there. Therefore, the best way to go is to just fire off Focus Blasts (and pray that they hit). Ttar, btw, is almost completely incapable of OHKOing you, even with sandstorm damage factored in. It's like a 1% chance. Unless you're up against Tyraniboa, but I figured that's fairly rare. Anyway, assuming the opposing Ttar isn't carrying flamethrower, Sceptile is good to go. Now, for Skarm, a problem is posed: you can't OHKO after a +1 boost. BUT! If it's a defensively oriented Skarm, then it will knock itself out with Brave Bird after being hit with HP fire. It'll knock you out, too, though. In any case, if you pair this with a Starmie, you're almost guaranteed to come out on top of the Tyranitar+Doryuuzu+Skarm+Burungeru combo. Outside of sandstorm leads, though, I haven't run any calcs yet, but I'm assuming it's going to be fairly well-rounded in terms of usefulness.
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:00 am

If it's ok , I'd like to test you dusknoir.Ive never really used one before and Ive heard there pretty good.
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Sat Nov 27, 2010 12:22 pm

Absolutely! I don't do pretty much any battling whatsoever, so if you want to use any of these sets, that's quite cool by me.
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