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 Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]

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TonberryDon
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Wed Apr 13, 2011 1:30 am

Normal Gem last resort still isnt powerfull enough to put a dent into anything though. Besides they can just switch in a ghost type to sponge the hit. Original concept but poor execution imho.
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darkiway
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:28 am

sure, ghost steel and rock laugh at this set, but thats the reason why you have other pokemon on your team. And since audino only learns a handful of stab moves, and usually uses special attacks, I doubt anyone would see it coming.

Plus, I looked it up with a (admittedly unreliable) damage calculator and 140 + stab + normal gem should cripple about anything that doesnt have def investment. Enough damage for an easy revenge kill at least. Weaker pokemon will be knocked out in a single hit.

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PeregrineMuon
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:46 pm

TonberryDon wrote:
Wouldnt it be better to dump more points into special defense? Intimidate is a +1 defense for you anyway unless you are facing a foe with Defiant.

My reasoning there (which could be entirely wrong) is that the idea of the Intimidate is to get the opponent to switch out, which REALLY helps out this set, since it needs a couple of turns to get the status + attract going. Thus, the idea is to come in on something that you know that you can scare out so that you can status on the switch. Thus, the EVs are placed so that you achieve a nearly perfect balance between defense and special defense.

Also, regarding Darki's Audino, I think it could be viable. I did some damage calcs of my own (by hand, so they should be good), and here's what I came up with. These numbers represent the amount of damage in hp done to a standard offensive Gyara set. It assumes max damage (min damage would be .85 of the listed numbers). Also, such a Gyara would normally have 331 hp, I believe.

Audino = 328.5
CB Tauros using Return = 333
Slaking using Giga Impact = 446.6
Life Orb Metagross using Meteor Mash (this is assuming a neutral hit, which obviously doesn't happen) = 347.36

Basically, It's doing a respectable chunk, especially considering the base 60 attack, and--I think--that versus your standard lead, since they aren't normally very bulky, you stand a good chance of putting them in revenge kill range, like Darki said before.
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TonberryDon
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Fri Apr 15, 2011 6:22 am

It would only be viable on random wifi as it's near useless after using it's normal gem. If it would get recycle it would be able to use it more often. Kind of beats the purpose of the set though.
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:11 pm

So...definitely not my usual style to post a set that even smells like a normal set, but I was testing a friend's team the other day, and this one actually kind of impressed me.

Conkeldurr @ Flame Orb
[Guts] [Careful] [252 HP, 96 Att, 160 Sp Def]
-Bulk Up
-Drain Punch
-Stone Edge
-Mach Punch/EQ/Payback/SomethingReallyCool

So as I said, this one isn't exactly a slap in the face or anything, and actually, I thought that this looked like a really bad idea at first. The combination of burn damage plus 65 base Special Defense with no reliable recover seemed a little shaky at first. But then I started using it, and I was blown away by how durable this thing was. After a single Bulk Up, you aren't going to be taking much more than a quarter damage from any hefty neutral physical attack, and you're special defense isn't too shabby either. With the given EVs and nature, you've got 216 in both special and physical defense, and you also pack 414 HP, which is nothing to be scoffed at. Anyway, in the last slot, I'd be inclined to put EQ for coverage, but Payback is certainly an option. The one I was using had Mach Punch, but I never found a use for it, personally. Also, an important thing to realize about this set is that, since you are going to be taking some rather hefty residual damage, and you really don't have a reliable recovery move, you want to bring this guy in late game, after you've cleared out as many flying, ghost, and bug types as possible, because you're really going to want to wail on the opponent with Drain Punch, as it's the one thing keeping you alive and kickin'. You do, however, have one very nice thing going for you: after getting off a Bulk Up (which I have not found difficult to do), you hit like a truck. No. You hit like a jet going mach two. Essentially, in one turn, you're getting two stages of attack, and when you're base attack is 140, you are not one to be messed with.


Last edited by PeregrineMuon on Fri Apr 22, 2011 7:36 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Does anyone actually read this?)
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TonberryDon
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Sat Apr 23, 2011 7:08 am

Pretty much a standard Conkeldurr set except for the Flame Orb. In all honesty Lefties would be a better choice for more durability and predict a toxic/will'o'wisp from your opponent.

If you are sure nothing is gonna come in with status moves Flame Orb is fine seeing that you have Drain Punch.

I'd replace Stone Edge with Payback and keep Mach punch, best combination imho. It can hit everything pretty much.
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Sat Apr 23, 2011 12:46 pm

Yeah, it basically comes down to how desperate you are to set up quickly. If you don't mind losing a bit of durability, Flame Orb is the way to go, otherwise, just go with a standard set, as you pointed out.

Also, one of the most common walls that I've run into while battling is Gliscor, which I'm not sure will be 2HKO'd by Payback but certainly will be by Stone Edge, which is why I pack it.
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PeregrineMuon
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Sat Apr 23, 2011 12:58 pm

On a not-really-related note, I found this Excel document on Smogon, and I was like...whoa. I'm going to be using this a lot.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=81868


Last edited by PeregrineMuon on Tue Apr 26, 2011 6:19 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Shoddy is not equal to Smogon.)
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Mon Apr 25, 2011 8:45 pm

"Last edited by PeregrineMuon on Fri Apr 22, 2011 7:36 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Does anyone actually read this?)"

Yes, I remember when you said the thing about llamas chewing at the chord for the reason editing as well... lol
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:04 pm

^^^ LOL

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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Sun May 08, 2011 2:20 pm

Armaldo @ Life Orb
[Swift Swim] [Jolly] [252 Attack, 252 Speed, 4 Special Defense]

-Earthquake
-Hone Claws
-Stone Edge
-Iron Defense

This is one of the guys I plan to use on my Drizzle team. (Despite Drizzle + Swift Swim being banned.) Anyways, since Armaldo is naturally bulky, and only 2 of its 3 weaknesses are primarily physical (Steel and Rock), Iron Defense is there to take those hits. Hone Claws raises Accuracy, so we don't get screwed by Stone Edge missing, and at the same time powering us up. Earthquake is well... Earthquake. So yeah, this is a Swift Swim sweeper. :I

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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Sun May 08, 2011 2:35 pm

A suggestion TMan, if that's for a Rain team, you might want to run X-Scissor since Rain teams are generally weak to Grass.
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Sun May 08, 2011 2:44 pm

I see what you mean, and I was gonna put X-Scissor somewhere, as it is another powerful STAB, however there isn't any room for it, and having a Rock move and a Ground move give alot of coverage.

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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Sun May 08, 2011 3:23 pm

Ledian @ Focus Sash
(iron fist) (adamant) 252 evs in atk, 252 evs in speed, 6 in sp def.

-Drain punch
-mach punch
-acrobatics
-swords dance


Nothing incredible, but the only way I deem possible to use ledian as an offensive lead. And hey, who's NOT gonna try to set up on a ladian?

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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Sun May 08, 2011 7:38 pm

Haha, that's awesome! If only Ledian were less underpowered. Seems like a pretty sweet set, though. If you're anticipating getting set up on, though, you could drop the Mach Punch (which is nearly useless without the +2, I would think) for Encore, giving you a much better chance of setting up yourself. This would also give you a much stronger chance of them breaking your Focus Sash, giving viability to the Acrobatics.
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Sun May 08, 2011 7:42 pm

I considered encore at first, but decided agaisnt it. Mach punch is necessary to damage whatever will try to revenge kill or abuse priority

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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Sun May 08, 2011 7:45 pm

Isn't Drain Punch and Iron Fish an illegal combination since Drain Punch is no longer a TM and Iron Fist is a Dream World ability?
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Sun May 08, 2011 7:46 pm

Nah, you can breed drain punch onto it. However, the father must be a 4th gen ledian with the move.

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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Sun May 08, 2011 8:11 pm

Wait, it's an Egg move?
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Thu May 19, 2011 5:07 am

Infernape @ Focus Sash
(iron fist) (adamant) 252 evs in atk, 252 evs in speed, 6 in sp def.

-Fake out
-mach punch
-Thunder Punch
-Fire Punch

well, i thought of this set when i saw iron fist, because, well, i dont know, i just did.
first thing i do is fake out (obviously) then attack like crazy, thunder punch is there for gyara and other waters and fire and mach is there for stab
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Thu May 19, 2011 9:18 am

Sounds cool Devil. If I had to make a suggestion it would be to change the nature from adamant to jolly. It does cut the attack power but Infernape with a speed boosting nature outspeeds a good amount of pokes.

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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:10 pm

Phew. I haven't posted anything here in a month. Sad Darn League of Legends. Ah well. This is something that I came up with yester...this morning. It's a dual screener that attempts to fix the common problems usually associated with that role.

Kyurem @ Light Clay
[Pressure] [Modest] [252 HP, 252 Sp Att]
- Glaciate (65 base power, lowers speed one stage)
- Dragon Pulse
- Reflect
- Light Screen

Basically, this is designed to function as a lead screener, but I believe it should be able to function fine without being a lead. The idea is that, once you get up your screens (which you ought to have the bulk to do so; the only way you aren't going to get your screens up is if they can land 2/3 of your HP in one turn without a screen), you're still a contributing force on the team. In this case, you become something of a ridiculously bulky tank after you've set up. With 125 base HP and doubled defenses, you're aren't going down to just anything. With your buffed special attack stat, you can still dish out some really significant damage to an opponent, as well. The idea behind Glaciate, which may at first seem like a strange alternative to Ice Beam, is two-fold. First, if you're faced with an opponent that you can't OHKO, you're going to want to drop their speed to where you're faster. In the long run, this ought to save you one extra hit, which could be crucial. Second, if this is turn one and you're leading with this and the opponent has taunt, you can lower their speed while they take the first turn to attack you (I'm pretty sure no one instinctively taunts a Kyurem), then, since you'll hopefully be faster, you can set up your first screen while they hit you a second time. Once they see the first screen go up, it's too late for them to taunt you, as you can get the second one up the next turn.

Unfortunately, I have yet to try this, so I have no idea whether or not it'll actually fly.
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:35 am

i use kyurem as a mixed attacker and it excells well in that role.

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Atk / 100 Def / 100 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Iron Head
- Drain Punch
- Cosmic Power
- Wish

i've tested this and it works wonders half the time
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:36 pm

lol And the other half of the time?
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:18 pm

Swalot @ Black Sludge
Ability: Sticky Hold
Nature: Modest (+Sp.Atk, -Atk)
EVs: 252 HP, 80 Def, 98 Sp.Atk, 80 Sp.Def
- Giga Drain
- Acid Spray
- Sludge Wave
- Ice Beam

This set can run either Liquid Ooze or Sticky Hold, but that really depends on the user's preference of what is more threatening... (but Sticky Hold seems to be better :/)
The idea of this set is to try and hit hard with some of its attacks.
This is done by using Acid Spray to lower the opponent's Sp.Def two stages.
By doing so, you can do a more powerful version of your move, or force a switch.
Giga Drain is your main reliance on recovery, but you have Black Sludge to back you up as well (hence the max HP, as Black Sludge will heal more because of that).
Sludge Wave is Swalot's strongest attack, while Ice Beam allows decent coverage.
Remember though, Giga Drain is a 4th gen TM, and requires the Swalot to be from 4th gen XI

The only problem with this set is facing Steel Types, which completely wall this Swalot :/
(unless it is a certain dual-type, like Rock/Steel, Grass/Steel, Ground/Steel, but even then, Swalot can't do much to them).
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