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 Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]

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ninetalescommander
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:40 pm

Ummm, what the heck is a Zuruzukin?
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:08 pm

Scrafty's Japanese name
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:44 pm

I recently noticed an item I had somewhat glossed over, and decided to take advantage of it: pressure band. To be honest, I couldn't get it to work very well.

Steelix @ Pressure Band
[Sturdy] [Sassy] [252 HP, 252 Sp. Def]
-Rest
-Protect
-Toxic
-Bind

The idea was to Bind something to you that wouldn't be able to harm you much (main problem, I found, since they often switch to something that'll be able to 2 or 3 shot you). Once you have them Binded, then you should Protect, to wrack up some residual damage. Toxic the next turn if applicable, then protect away. With the Pressure Band, you're going to be doing 1/8 health per turn, plus toxic damage if you can get that up, and it'll go for a full 5 turns. There are a number of problems with the strategy, though. Lack of reliable recovery is one of them. Rest really just doesn't do the trick. To fix this, the only thing I can think of is RestTalking. It may work better, but you have to drop Toxic, meaning things are going to go REALLY slowly. Another problem is that, as you can see, it's walled by ghosts. Particularly Gengar, who won't even be Toxicked.

Anyway, the best I could ever do with this set was get a double down. It does excel, however, at putting on...minimal amounts of damage. It's a reliable option if you need a Poke that'll soften things up just a smidge before you bring in your sweeper. Being Steelix, you can bring it in to almost everything and knock off quarter of their health off the bat with just one Bind plus a Protect.

Now that I put it that way, it might be viable to simply use it as guerrilla damage on a team rife with walls and Wishers, giving me the option to switch out often rather than take a hit...
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:09 pm

Sorry about the late reply to this one Pere, I just saw it. I love the set, although risky, with some predictions it could work. It is similar to the sets I was thinking for Politoed, with the exception of Bind being swapped for Waterfall.

Agreed, this kind of set works really well the TR setting. Helping to ward off the walls and prevent them doing much, and you could protect away to help gain damage. I would suggest one thing though, Maybe Switch it to a Careful nature. Steelix is slow, but there are times you will want it to go first.

Also, in 5th Gen, you have the likes of Ferrothorn that also walls this set.

One last suggestion, if Steelix could learn Super Fang, maybe you could try that too?
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:29 pm

Ah, thank you for the suggestions. I hadn't thought of a Careful nature before, but I think you're right. That ought to help. I looked into the Super Fang thing and, sadly, it doesn't get it. That would have been pretty sweet, though, I must admit.
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:51 pm

Curses...if only it did, that would make it a sweet as Pokemon. For a substitute though, you could try the rest/super fang(or whirlpool)/protect/toxic on a Walrein in the hail with Ice Body Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:28 pm

Alright, so I've obviously been in something of a Pokemon-lull due to a variety of factors, but I have no intention of not going back to Pokemon, so I'm going to continue posting here in spite of my dearth of posts recently. I certainly don't have the edge that I may have had in the past, nor do I have the insight into the metagame, since I've played very few matches recently. As a result, my sets could be somewhat lackluster. Anyway, though, I hope you enjoy criticizing them, at the very least. Here's the one that I was just looking at today. The theory behind it is somewhat outdated, since I used the usage stats from August, but I think it should still hold. Most of the threats have stayed the same, at least from my impression. This is ANTI-METAGAME MESPRIT!!!

Mesprit @ Leftovers/Life Orb
[Naive; +spd, -sp def] [Levitate] [150 Att, 106 Sp Att, 252 Speed]
-Substitute/Protect
-Ice Punch/Ice Beam
-Skill Swap/HP fire
-Copycat

This is essentially a potentially high-payoff, high-risk, prediction-based, metagame-based set for Mesprit, centering around the use of the move Copycat. First off, there are 3 things that this set requires for it to work. One, you'll need to be faster in most cases if you don't want to die. Most people don't, so I recommend being faster. Second, you'll want to be able to cripple (in the case of walls), and you'll need to be able to basically OHKO a sweeper. With that in mind, this set is geared to take down/counter a particular set of Pokemon (if you're packing Skill Swap): Heatran, Dragonite, and Gliscor, while being able to set up counters perfectly for other Pokemon on your team with the right composition. It would be invaluable, for instance, to pack a Magnezone on your team, as Mesprit is going to be prone to pull out steel types like Scizor who are looking for a free KO or tanks like Skarmory and Ferrothorn, all of which can be easy KO's for a Magnezone. Anyway...the strategy here is fairly simple. Sub up on the first turn (you can carry Protect if you're afraid of priority, but I think Substitute should prove to be a better option, particularly when taking down Pokes reliant on setting up). Subbing up allows you to scout out what move they're using, which is what you're Copycat will become when you use it next. If it's a set up move, you're in luck. You can just wait for them to attack you while you sit behind your sub mimicking their boosts . You should note that you should be faster than most Gliscors and almost all Dragonites. Heatran, however, is a different beast. Unless it's scarfed, you'll be faster. Lord it over him. How? Skill Swap. Very Happy It's not going to use Earth Power, obviously, since you levitate, leaving it with Fire Blast. You skill swap, and now he just activated YOUR Flash Fire. But the fun doesn't stop here. If all goes well, he'll actually recognize that you still can't do very much to him (you're copycat'd Fire Blast will only do around 70% with a Life Orb). His next move will then logically be to hit you with Earth Power. What are you going to do? Skill Swap again. "Wait, what?! Aren't we right back where we started, Perry?!" It may seem like it, but if you think about it, we're not. We now have a Copycat that will act as Earth Power. Boom. That's a KO. Not to mention some serious style points. I haven't thought about how this set will interact with other Pokes that are common in the metagame, but I'd imagine that Copycat can do a few more tricks. Oh! And before I forget, it's worth noting that Skill Swapping the Marvel Scale off of Dragonite would be a smart move and could make the KO much easier for Mesprit.


Last edited by PeregrineMuon on Sun Nov 06, 2011 7:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Sun Nov 06, 2011 4:46 pm

You do realize it learns Ice Beam, right?
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Sun Nov 06, 2011 7:10 pm

Ah, thank you! I was looking at Uxie for some reason when I was looking over offensive moves. :p

However, given the fact that there is a good chance for you to be Copycatting Dragon Dances and Swords Dances (from Dragonite and Gliscor, respectively), it may prove to be beneficial to keep Ice Punch there, in spite of the fact that it packs less than Ice Beam when unboosted.
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:54 pm

Ive been looking around and one of my favorite pokemon has again caught my attention...

*Many generations ago, in a region far, far away*

JUMPLUFF

After seeing the flying plant gain a +3 defence boosting move in cotton gaurd and a +2 spdef boosting move in amnesia, I figured that a set utilizing leech seed and, well, pure bulk would probably work out. So here goes:

Jumpluff
@Leftovers (I considered evolite skiploom, but I wanted the extra speed and the lefties recovery.)(Plus Jumpluff has a cooler sprite, hands down...)
EVs: I'm too lazy to actually calculate them out, but I'd say maximizing speed, then going for defence and special defense, with a special defensive nature; cotton gaurd will probably be your first move, boosting jumpluff's lower defensive stat (Jumpluff carries 75 base hp, 70 base defence, and 90 base special defence)

-Cotton Gaurd
-Amnesia
-Leech Seed
-Substitute

Other Options over substitute:
-Sleep Powder
-Aromatherapy
-Stun Spore
-U-turn
-Protect

There are a few main problems with this set: first, even with a couple spdef boosts, jumpluff still wont be able to take an ice beam reasonably well. Second, it goes down quickly to toxic. Third, it has trouble with seismic toss/night shade. And finally, bar those carrying U-Turn, it's walled by grass types, who aren't effected by leech seed (and how much damage will u-turn be doing anyway, realistically?)

Cotton gaurd and amnesia form the crux of this set, making jumpluff nearly impossible to take down after a few boosts. Leech seed not only provides some damage output, it also helps recover health. The last move slot is up to the user: Substitute is probably the best option for its ability to dodge 4x effective ice beams and dodge status. Sleep powder can sleep a threat, but is hindered by the sleep clause. Aromatherepy can heal Jumpluff of status, and help keep the team free of status (could be used effectively on a team that likes to utilize rest) but doesn't help with ice type attacks. Stun spore can be used to get the last laugh on anything trying to phaze you, since it can paralyze anything that you feel is remotely threatening; unlike sleep powder, it can be used multiple times, and with jumpluff's mixed walling nature and leech seed, you'll probably see a few switches, but it leaves you weaker defensively. U-turn can run from status and ice, but means that you lose both defensive boosts and the surprise value of the set. Protect gives you an extra turn of recovery and leech seed damage, and enables you to scout for ice beam and toxic.


And, since I'm bored, another set, though not *yet* practical.

Technician, swords dance, and STAB 40 bp priority, coming off a base 130 attack stat.
Sound familiar?
Well, its not scizor we're talking about.
Its Breloom.

BRELOOM
@Life Orb
Technician
EVS: Max attack.
-Swords Dance
-Mach Punch
-Spore
-Bullet Seed

(or Rock tomb, which is stone edge plus speed lowering... 100 )
Pretty self explanitory. Played like scizor, but with spore. Awesomer. Plus you're a mushroom. It should be noted that bullet seed does a minimum of 112 base attack (without factoring in STAB), and a maximum of 280 base attack (again, without STAB)

It should be noted that Breloom's dream world ability is not yet released, and so in the case that you can't get a female, you would not be able to use bullet seed.

Enjoy!
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Tue Nov 08, 2011 4:30 am

:I I saw those Brelooms everywhere while playing the DW tier.

The thing about your Jumpluff is that Whimsicott can basically do everything it can better. And you wouldn't want U-Turn on a Jumpluff if you're going to be boosting...

Although if you do use that set you might want to add that Entry Hazards, Toxic Spikes in particular if you're not running Sleep Powder, would be pretty helpful.
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:06 pm

I'm on Brelooms!
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:14 pm

Hmmm...I would agree that the Breloom set is seen quite a bit when it's legal, and it certainly does pack quite a punch. As for Whimsicott versus Jumpluff...

Jumpluff, I would argue, has a better typing, considering it has the same # of weaknesses (even though ice is a quadweakness, Whimsicott isn't going to fare any better against ice than Jumpluff), packs an extra quad resist to grass (not that you can really do anything against grass types with this set...), AND packs a ground immunity. This means that not only can you come in on EQ, you also don't need to worry about any Toxic or regular Spikes, which is good for a staller set. You do have to worry more about Stealth Rocks, but since you're an HP sapper, I would imagine that SR should be a pretty minimal problem.

Whimsicott, on the other hand, gets automatic priority on all moves in this set (I'm not sure how great that is, though, considering how fast both of these Pokes are anyway), has SLIGHTLY better defenses (which gets amplified by the boosting), and doesn't need to worry about SR as much.

As for the item, it may also be viable to try a Big Root, as that will increase the healing done by Leech Seed by 30%. I haven't crunched any math on it, but it seems like there's a chance that it's worth it.
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Sat Nov 12, 2011 11:44 am

Hm... also, it should probably be noted that whimsicott does not (I believe) have access to amnesia, or any special defense boosting move, save light screen. Also, I like jumpluff better xD

And if you REALLY want to annoy people, try bringing in both >: D
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:37 pm

Then you've got a double weakness
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:24 pm

Yes, but you also have more resistances too because you have that extra typing as well as an extra and more useful stab if you need it. Granted that most of you ev's would be invested in speed and hp and/or defenses, you still have more offensive capability if you need it. I would go with Jumplufff over Whimsicott in my book.
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:35 pm

I meant if he used both...
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:40 pm

Reviving this thread. :U

Electrode @ Air Balloon/Life Orb
Timid/Modest Nature
252 Special Attack, 4 Defense, 252 Speed

-Volt Switch
-Hidden Power Ground/Ice
-Electro Ball
-Taunt/Explosion

The main thing I wanted to try out was Electro Ball. Electrode is most likely the best Pokemon to utilize Electro Ball, due to 140 Base Speed. Thing is, Electrode's Special Attack isn't all that great, at Base 80. It's decent, but not great. So, you could either have Modest for maximum Special Attack, with an Air Balloon to take a single Ground attack, or you could go with maximum Speed for Electro Ball's greatest potential, without maximum Special Attack. However, Life Orb could replace those missing EVs, but you can't switch in on a Ground attack, or take one for that matter. Volt Switch is for you to get the heck out of there in case things go bad, or the opponent sends in a counter, while still doing damage. The Hidden Power is also tricky. You could either go with Hidden Power Ground to hit Electric types, mainly Volt Absorbers, or Hidden Power Ice to counter the Ground weakness, and Grass resistance. Depends. Taunt is just a filler, and since Explosion is nerfed, it doesn't really seem as important as the other attacks, so that's also a filler. Either Taunt or Explosion will do really, but maybe Taunt is more valuable.

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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:47 pm

Hm... well I thought this thread was for hypothesizing before 5th Gen came out.

Electro Ball really isn't that great of a move. FenixFire had tested it and you really need a Scarf Electrode to do decent damage to the general threats. It'd probably work better against something like Skarmory or slow bulky Water types, but even then you shouldn't be expecting much damage output.
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:50 pm

I have yet to run any tests. I plan on one without Life Orb, and one with, as I'm not entirely convinced yet.

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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:20 pm

@Cloud Kirby, I made this thread simply as a place for people to post ideas on sets that they would like to see used or to have input on. I had no intention of making it exclusively for pregen release.

@Rain Man, I'm quite interested to see how it works out. I had always assumed that the move was essentially not very useful, as its base power is going to--in most cases--going to be less than Thunderbolt.
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:28 pm

hey pere! I'm goign to post a set for Liepard here. It sorta works with any abilities, but would be optimal with prankster. Sad its still unreleased

Liepard@ leftovers
Max hp and sp def. Any sp def nature that doesnt lower speed


Swagger
Foul Play
Thunder Wave
Attract/substitute

I figured substitute would be the better option here, but attract would be interesting in its own way.

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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:14 pm

Darkiway! Very Happy

I really wish Liepard had more than 64/50/50 defences, because this would be such a fun set to run (well, may not for the receiving end lol). I feel like Krookodile can pull of this set better, but it doesn't have the autopriority or the twave, which kinda stinks. Either way, though, this set could be really annoying. I used to run a parattract Gyarados and it worked miracles, but I never had the guts to run swagger on anything, which would have made for a perhaps an even more potent set, though I would have had to have sacrificed type coverage for it.
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Thu Oct 25, 2012 6:25 pm

Well, now that B&W2 are underway, why not revive an old thread? What are your favorite sets that you've been using?

Here are a few of mine (2 Nidoking sets):

So here's the deal with Nidoking: It's got good power and coverage with it's special sets, so hardly anyone ever uses Nidoking's naturally higher base attack. While he may be lacking in moves to abuse with sheer force, he's got some great options.

1. Nidoking
@Life Orb
252 att, 252 spe, 4 hp, Jolly
-Hone Claws
-Sucker Punch
-Head Smash
-Earthquake

After a hone claws boost, Nidoking's physical attacking prowess is much more powerful than his special sets. Additionally, with a physical set, Nidoking can overcome the limits of his base 85 speed to hit hard and fast with sucker punch. In the next two slots, Earthquake provides STAB while Head Smash is a (I believe nearly) 100% accurate move with 150 base power. Head Smash and Earthquake get great neutral coverage alongside each other, only missing out on the occasional Pokemon like Claydol or Bronzong.

2. Nidoking
Similar ev spread, maybe adamant
@Choice Band, Choice Scarf
-Earthquake
-Head Smash
-Megahorn
-Sucker Punch (for Band), Seed Bomb/Return/Shadow Claw/Fire Blast
With a choice band equipped, Nidoking can muscle his way through most walls, especially due to his powerful coverage moves. Most players will not expect a choice Nidoking, making it especially deadly, hitting lots of incoming Chanseys and Blisseys hard (I think EQ is a OHKO on Blissey, probably not on chansey, but I'd guess that it stands a chance to 2HKO...). Sucker Punch can be quite useful, especially against Dugtrio who think they can trap and revenge you. Scarfers have extra speed to abuse EQ + Head Smash + Megahorn (and whatever other move you picked. Fire Blast/Flamethrower/Thunderbolt/Thunder, for instance, helps deal with Skarmory switch ins, while scarfed seed bomb can help take out bothersome swamperts, quagsires, and gastrodons (among other things).

I'd Also like to note that Poison Point is generally the superior ability, unless you run a second layer of Hazards. Normal Poison, unlike what some players believe, is actually quite useful. It is much better against teams that switch a lot (think volt turn) for the extra damage. It also makes protect shenanigans much less useful. Rivalry could be used for the attack boost, but often, since many people hack their Pokemon, they have all male teams, making this ability a hindrance. It would help against Chansey + Blissey though...
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:44 am

JimmyCrystal wrote:

Rivalry could be used for the attack boost, but often, since many people hack their Pokemon, they have all male teams, making this ability a hindrance. It would help against Chansey + Blissey though...
Even if people didn't hack their Pokemon, it wouldn't be helpful. A lot of Pokemon have a higher chance of being Male than Female; think about the starters. Then also the Eeveelutions, and a lot more Pokemon. Less Pokemon have an increased chance of being Female. The only one I can think of at the top of my head is Granbull (I think?) and a couple of normal types you probably wouldn't see often anyway.
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