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 Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]

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PeregrineMuon
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:32 pm

Personally, I've recently become rather fond of UU. Unfortunately, this means that I have to leave behind my old staple, Charge Beam Bliss. I've been working on a special wall that's essentially meant to fill the same niche without stat boosting, so I was wondering what other people thought of it.

Cresselia@Life Orb
[Modest] [252 hp, 252 sp att, 4 spd]
-HP fire
-psychic
-moonlight
-Toxic/substitute

The general idea here is that Cresselia already has enough bulk and sustainability to take a hit even without full investment into defenses, freeing it up to take on a more offensive role. From the damage calcs that I've run, I really loving the amount of powerhousing that this could potentially do, and how effective of a bait set it is (in my head). Take, for instance, its normal nemesis, Scizor. OHKO'd by HP fire. And you're faster. Heatran? You'll whittle it down quite a bit faster that it will you, especially considering that you have recovery. Ferrothorn, Gyarados (with SR), bulky Zapdos, Heracross...the list goes on. The question of Toxic vs Substitute is one that stems out of how you want to handle the Pokes that you can't actually handle. For instance, Tyranitar is still generally a pain in your side (though not if it doesn't have Crunch; you can Toxic stall against Pursuit if you choose to stay in). Toxic allows you to status the Poke that poses a threat and then get the heck out of there, because there's not a single Pokemon in the game that can OHKO you without a disgusting amount of boosts (unless you count the Scizor that you can fry). Substitute, on the other hand, allows you to "deal" with Pokes that can push you out through means of Toxic, such as Bliss. Sub then allows you to just go into a stall war of epic proportions. Personally, I think Toxic is probably a much better choice than Sub.

Anyway, this leaves one last question: why a LO set over a Calm Mind set? Well, for one, I like to run oddball sets. More importantly, however, this set is a much more effective bait. No one in their right mind is going to leave their precious Scizor in to die after they see a Calm Mind. On the other hand, an HP fire out of NOWHERE is usually going to do the trick. Plus, I'm not entirely sure that you gain any significant amount of survivability from CM. Yes, it gives you stages of Sp Def, but who was going to be a problem in that department anyway? Specs Latios can be shrugged off after a couple of Draco Meteors, and you can live the first one easily if you Moonlight. Just for perspective, max damage Modest specs Draco Meteor from a fully invested Latios hits for JUST shy of 80%. Considering that's a neutral hit, that's pretty dang good. Thrown in the fact that you can recover 50% of your health, and Latios suddenly isn't that scary. Thus, I don't see much of a reason to run CM. Plus, there are still Pokes out there that can push you out easily, even after boosts, such as Bliss and Tyranitar (with Crunch).
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JimmyCrystal
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:46 pm

Wow, cool set. I'd like to point out that you can hit Tyranitar with toxic, which it won't like, on the switch, which will stop it from doing too much. One thing I am looking at, while I like HP fire a lot, and especially in OU with ferrothorn and scizor running around, is hp fighting: it enables you to hit Tyranitar, Heatran, Ferrothorn, and several other threats quite hard. If you were willing to drop psychic, which does pack the most power, but is predictable (and this is kind of a surprise based set) then I might look at Shadow Ball for coverage; it gives you perfect neutral coverage as well as hitting Reuniclus (who can CM in your face at the moment, although I don't think Shadow Ball will change that much), Latios, Latias, Mew, Alakazam, and others. This would probably be preferable in rain, since HP fire won't be that useful...

I also like the look of a slightly more offensive set with Charge Beam, although that would ideally still have sub (allowing you to take down Blissey, set up against Ferrothorn, [defensive] Politoed, and others). Not sure about how you would work that one though. Maybe Sub/CB/Moonlight/Psychic or Sub/Charge Beam/Moonlight/Ice Beam.

Nice set, awesome concept. I like it xD

EDIT: [*is dumb* Obviously you can't set up against defensive Politoed, it has encore...

Also, while I did give a set idea that might work better for rain, Cress is really much better in neutral weather or sun, because of moonlight. Additionally, this would boost the power of HP Fire, which is always nice, and allow you to almost fully recover off the specs Latios Draco Meteor, factoring in leftovers. However, TTar is still a problem; you can't toxic it (like I said before) on the switch in for fear of Choice Band variants (which I think are the most common... that or scarf right now). You have to double switch out whenever you see it, or risk eating a choice band pursuit on the switch.

One way to help remedy that problem would be to run a Dugtrio along side Cress and Double switch to Trio against Tyranitar. Any Jolly variant of Dugtrio works (or Adamant Scarf, if you want...), as even Scarf Tyranitar with a Jolly/Hasty nature clocks in at 364 base speed (assuming 252 spe, 31 IV) while jolly Dugtrio hits 365.

Yeah...]


Last edited by JimmyCrystal on Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:54 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : *is dumb*)
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Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]
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