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 Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]

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Elements
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:00 pm

Here's one for Hail... although Walrein is better at it, Dewgong... I don't know.

Dewgong @ Leftovers
[Ice Body] (Dream World) [Calm/Careful] [192 Hp, 172 Def, 144 Sp Def]
- Surf/Dive
- Blizzard/Protect/Substitute
- Stockpile
- Toxic

Mm... yeah, Walrein does better with Super Fang and Brine in my opinion. Dewgong only has Dive...


Gothitelle [Female] @ Leftovers
Ability: Shadow Tag (Dream World)
Nature: Bold
EVs: 4 HP 252 Defense 252 Special Defense
- Psycho Shock/Future Sight
- Toxic
- Attract
- Protect

Can be annoying if you get it set up. EVs could be changed, though


Last edited by PokeWorldDP on Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:55 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:20 pm

Heh. Here's another one. This one is incredibly...quirky. Great for messing with your opponent's mind, or just for flat out messing around.

Honchkrow @ Sash
[Insomnia] [+Sp. Att, -Spd] [252 Att, 252 Sp Att, 4 Def] [0/31 Spd]
-Mirror Move
-Thunder Wave
-Superpower
-Heat Wave

Well, I don't even know why I thought of this. I think I just wanted to use mirror move. Which, by the way, it the reason for killing speed. You have to move second. Anyway, this set is intended to start as a lead, and the just spread parahax. The cool thing about this set is that it's capable of setting up both SR (through mirror move) AND antileading with decent move coverage. Obviously there are stronger moves you could put in there, like sucker punch or Brave Bird, but I opted for the crazier moves simply for the surprise factor. Okay, so they aren't INCREDIBLY surprising. So I guess it's just cool factor.

Also, this is random, but this is the only Pokemon that I've noticed that learns both Psycho Shift and Perish Song. Is it possible to switch off your death count?

Also, I totally agree with you, PokeWorldDP. Walrein can push around Dewgong pretty much any day of the week. I just wanted to come up with a set that might give Dewgong SOME possible merit.
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:48 pm

PeregrineMuon wrote:

Dragonite @ Life Orb/Salac Berry
[Multiscale] [-Def, +Sp Att] [252 Sp. Att, 252 Speed, 4 HP]
- Claw Sharpen
- Dragon Rush
- Focus Blast / Thunder
- Gale

An intresting set, but it lacks in the Speed department which could turn out quite detrimental for Dragonite nowadays. To ensure this set' succes, I'd back it up with a Baton Passing teammate. Perhaps Ninjask with Speed Boost & Claw Sharpen? That way Dragonite might drop Claw Sharpen alltogether and utilize all 3 special moves listed to great effect. Thunder Wave & Tailwind cast by a teammate could help out as well, although I'd opt for the former as it's more reliable. You could also consider running this set in the rain, as Rain Dance increases the accuracy of both Thunder & Gale to 100%. All in all, a solid Pokémon that needs some help to remedy its low speed.

PeregrineMuon wrote:

Zuruzukin @ Lefties/Lum Berry/Leichi Berry
[Intimidate] [Adamant] [252 Att, 252 Sp. Def, 4 HP]
- Fake Out
- Substitute
- Focus Punch
- Head Smash

Powerful attacks & good coverage. I'd have to warn for opposing Fighting leads though, as they'll easily outspeed (Kojondo, Hitmontop,...) or hit back relentlessly (Machamp,...). I'd put Crunch over Head Smash just to stop opposing Ghost Pokémon from dodging Focus Punch and only taking mediocre damage from Head Smash (Burungeru, Goruugu,...). Zuruzukin also gains STAB from Crunch, which makes it a potent attack in its own right. With Stealth Rocks punishing airborn foes, I don't think losing Head Smash will make you miss out on a lot of KO's. It does leave you walled by Toxicroak, but I wouldn't advise to stay in vs. opposing fighters in the first place. A nice set overal, definitely Leftovers as an item to keep the HP up or break even in sandstorm/hail. Might find some trouble setting up a Substitute though unless it can scare an opponent out (Psychic Types, Ghost Types, Normal Types, Steel Types weak to Fighting,...).

PeregrineMuon wrote:

Dusknoir @ Expert Belt / Lum Berry
[Pressure] [Brave] [252 Att, 252 Sp. Att, 4 HP]
-Shadow Sneak
-Ice Punch
-EQ
-HP Grass

The most creative use of a Dusknoir, hands down. I do wonder if it's able to take sufficient abuse before it's able to counterattack with a super effective move. Will lose a lot of power once the opponent catches wind of its tricks, but a solid destroyer of leads it is! Definitely Expert Belt to fetch that 2HKO on Swampert. Would advise Pain Split & Life Orb with such a low HP stat, but every one of the 4 moves has its purpose, leaving no space for Pain Split whatsoever. I do wonder how it handles Heatran (as nearly all carry Shuca Berry as an item nowadays in the lead position), aren't those Stab Fire Blasts enough to kill it outright?

The other sets seem quite intriguing as well, but I've run out of time for now. I'll take another look at those on a later date.

Keep it up!
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Fri Jan 07, 2011 4:43 pm

Hey, thanks for the critiques, Fenix! Much appreciated.

As you pointed out, Dragonite is really hindered by its speed, so those suggestions should come in handy if I actually get around to fine-tuning it. I've only used it on a team of experimental Pokemon that were haphazardly thrown together, so it really didn't have much of an opportunity to shine. Setting up seems to be somewhat tricky with it, so I think I might actually rely on Baton Passing that Claw Sharpen from Ninjask. The only problem with that is the fact that they are both weak to ice, so if the opponent is wailing on Ninjask with an Ice Beam, Dragonite is going to take some nasty entry damage. Not enough to kill it, considering its new ability but crippling nonetheless.

Regarding the Dusknoir, which is the set that I've had the most experience with, I know for a fact that it wrecks when it comes to antileading, but I actually made this set over the summer, so it was back when Swampert was rampant and Shuca Heatran leads were actually fairly rare. I ran some calcs as to how it would stand up to Heatran's Fire Blast, and it actually takes only about 80% absolute maximum. That's the only good news about the situation, though, as you can't KO back with anything other than a Focus Punch. And you can't get that off without a sub up. Unfortunately, this particular set can't chew up two moveslots for that. HOWEVER! This situation is not without hope! Given the observation that Swampert seems to have fallen off of the radar lately, you could actually run pain split over the HP grass, which was only there specifically for that Poke. And, what's even more awesomer is that if you use Pain Split on the first turn against a Shuca Heatran lead you are nearly guaranteed to get the KO, regardless of what it does.

Situation A: Let's say that Shuca Heatran's first move is to set up SR (it's faster, btw). First turn you use Pain Split. This does right around 45 damage to Heatran, knocking off a little over 10%, so roughly 13-14%. Second turn, Heatran is going to attack, most likely with Fire Blast (you're actually worse off if it doesn't do Fire Blast, but it's going to so I'm not going to address that). That will put you down at 20%ish. In any case, you're going to live. The only thing that can go wrong now is getting a burn. If that happens, you're going to wish you had that Lum Berry, because without it, you can't win this, I don't think. Anyway, your second move should be to EQ, which now puts Heatran down to 90% or so if I've done the math right. And then BUBAM!!! In comes the Shadow Sneak, which is quite likely to knock it out.

Situation B: This is the better situation, actually. Heatran leads off this time with Fireblast, which you follow up with Pain Split. Now, in the absolute WORST case scenario, this puts you both at more than 180 hp, which is great, because Heatran can't land more than 178 with its Fire Blast, whereas you can net a pretty nifty KO using EQ without SR even coming up. And even IF you were to get burned, Heatran would have to get max damage twice for it to matter. It's a goner.

So yeah, I think for 5th gen battling, I would opt for Pain Split over HP Grass, since you gain the ability to take down Heatran, as well as a bit of much-needed healing. This Dusknoir, while it is definitely sturdy, isn't a defensive menace like it would be with ev investment, so the pain split would really be handy.


Last edited by PeregrineMuon on Fri Jan 07, 2011 4:47 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Ambiguous pronouns.)
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:38 pm

Well, I wasn't planning on sharing this one until the PGPX comes out, but I think I'm going to go ahead and post this anyway.

Arbok @ Choice Scarf
[Intimidate] [Adamant] [252 Att, 252 Spd, 4 Def]
-Switcheroo
-Disable
-Aqua Tail
-Gunk Shot

I love using this set, and you'll see why when the vids of it come out. This rather odd looking set is best used for doubles, although I'm pretty sure it would work in singles as well. Anyway, Switcheroo is great on this little sucker since no one ever sees that coming. You can completely dethreatenize pretty much any opposing wall by giving them your item, and you gain usually leftovers, which works very well in conjunction with Intimidate. However, it has a leg up on most other Trick leads: disable. While this is normally a very unreliable move, having this work with Switcheroo can prove to be a very effective combo. This can completely screw with the opponent and is great for dealing with that one last Poke that you've stuck on a choiced move by forcing it to Struggle. However, this set is not a one trick pony. The last two moves give you the option to wail on the opponent rather than crippling them. While it may not seem like a great combination of moves at first, these two moves actually give fairly respectable coverage and, particularly in a doubles match, it is very likely to hit something for a heft chunk of damage. Accuracy is clearly a problem here, but the extra hitting power is something that Arbok really appreciates since it's working off of a not-so-stellar attack stat. And, on top of it all, Arbok looks really awesome on PBR.
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:43 pm

again with another awesome set buddy. Thanks so much.

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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:20 pm

Oh! Reading for the Duskie and I was wondering Perrie if you would run those for Lum as well, I tend to always go with it over the Belt because it take care of so much more (other leads I mean).
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Wed Jan 26, 2011 6:49 pm

Having done the calculations with the Lum Berry, situation B works without a flaw. However, you will flunk with sinking colors situation A. Now that I think about it, though, you can just turn situation A into situation B by simply Pain Splitting the second turn, when Heatran is almost definitely going to Fire Blast you. That will then go off without a hitch.

So, all considered, Zakki's method is going to work much better. Since the Expert Belt was simply there for the Swamperts in the first place, losing it is no biggie, thus allowing you to run a different item, which I totally didn't realize at first. Thank you for that, Zakki. Anyway, I would agree that packing a lum berry will significantly help in dealing with opposing leads, as it allows you to counter Breloom, Politoed (by the way, does anyone know if that has been banned?), Roserade, and Darkrai.
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:45 pm

Another reason to hate toxic spikes.

Gengar @ Life Orb
[Levitate] [Modest/Timid] [252 Sp. Att, 252 Spd, 4 HP]
-Venom Shock
-Evil Eye
-Thunderbolt
-Hypnosis

The bazooka of a toxic spikes team. The general idea here is to get a layer or two of spikes put up, and then get this guy in there. Venom Shock gets catapulted up to 195 base power if you factor in STAB, and Evil Eye gets a hefty 150 to provide decent coverage. Thunderbolt is there to hit flyers and levitaters, while hypnosis functions as a way to deal with steels and poisons, which can walk in on the spikes without a hitch. Putting them asleep not only makes them much easier to deal with, but also puts your STAB moves up to where you'll need them to be. I haven't actually tried this out--mostly because I've never run a Toxic Spikes team and have no experience in that department--but based sheerly on speculation, this seems like a pretty good way to abuse a couple of new moves available this gen. You can pull off similar sets with Pokes like Roserade, but the fact that you get dual STAB is easily worth the small drop in base sp. attack, not to mention the handy immunity to ground-type moves.
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:34 pm

This is a very interesting set and I think it could work, i was thinking about making a toxic spikes team and if I do, I will definitely use this if you wouldn't mind
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:30 pm

Absolutely! That's pretty much what this thread is here for. For the most part, I'm too lazy to try out my own sets, so I put them out here for other people to use. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:22 pm

That set didn't work for me because my Toxic Spiker always got killed or the Spikes got Rapin Spinned -_-
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:26 pm

Hmmm...perhaps you could try packing a spin blocker? Actually, now that I think about it, Gengar serves as such. You could try using a bulkier Poke for setting up your spikes, or something with a scarf. A scarfed Tentacruel heavily invested in defense and HP would work quite well, and if the only function that it's going to serve is setting up spikes, you could run a Rest+Chesto Berry. That way you can switch out before getting KO'd, come in later and Rest, then switch out again, and set up spikes later. A rather convoluted process, but it might work.

What are you currently using?
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:35 pm

It was actually on a mono-Poison team, lol... I think it's more because Gengar always had to come in before the Toxic Spiker could
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Sun Feb 06, 2011 9:11 pm

Favorite physical wall ever:

Slaking @ lefties
[Truant] [Adamant] [252 HP, 252 Def, 4 Att]
-Slack Off
-Return/Giga Impact
-Taunt
-Amnesia/Shadow Claw

First off, Slaking really gets overlooked because of its ability, which doesn't actually inhibit it as much as people believe that it would. Second off, Slaking's defensive powerhousing ability gets overlooked because people wet their pants when they see it's base attack stat and forget to look at the rest of the package. Boasting 150 base hp and 100 base defense (with a very respectable 100 speed), Slaking is a wall not to be trifled with. Coupled with the ability to heal of 50% damage with Slack Off, you become darn freakin' near indestructible on the physical side. Example: Toxicroak @ life orb (base 106 attack) will do a MAXIMUM of 75% damage to this sucker with a Cross Chop. Bear in mind that Cross Chop is 120 base power plus STAB. This is essentially equivalent to a Skarmory taking a Flare Blitz from Infernape to the face (Skarm will take 83-98% from that, btw). But Slaking's abilities don't stop there. Back to the pants-wetting attack stat! With absolutely no investment whatsoever, you can hit the aforementioned Toxicroak back with Return for up to 90%, giving you the chance for a KO--guaranteed with Giga Impact. Personally, though, I recommend going with Return over Giga Impact. In spite of the fact that it does do a fair bit less damage, it allows you to switch out on your truant turn, which can really save you some grief in the long run. As for the final move, I slap on amnesia simply for something to do when you know the opponent is going to switch out. It basically allows you to super-wall if you get set up properly. Shadow Claw shouldn't be overlooked, though, as this set literally can't touch a ghost type without it. I've lost to more than one Shedinja on account of this fact.
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Sun Feb 06, 2011 9:38 pm

Great sets as always Perry. You've given me some ideas to try out buddy.

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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Sun Feb 06, 2011 9:53 pm

I say Night Slash should be used over Shadow Claw in case the opponent switches to a Normal type, making you waste a turn
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Sun Feb 06, 2011 10:36 pm

Seems great and since I love Slaking I will definitely try it out
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:43 pm

So personally, I can't stand Togekiss because of the over-prominence of the hax element. So the original goal was to make a set that doesn't rely on dumb freaking luck. Oops.

Togekiss @ Lefties/Leppa Berry (Is that the one that restores PP?)
[Serene Grace] [Modest] [252 HP, 152 Sp Att, 100 Def]?
-Ancient Power
-Roost
-Aura Sphere
-Flamethrower

Yup. That's right. I went there. Ancient Power. Pretty much the haxiest move in the game. The only real reason to use this (for the most part) is for its super-awesome secondary function, i.e. a +1 boost to all stats. Normally, this really can't be used effectively due to its piddling 10% chance of happening combined with a meager 8 maximum pp. However, Togekiss addresses both of these issues. With serene grace, you get a workable 20%, given Togekiss's wonderful natural bulk. You can also give it a Leppa Berry to pretty much assure that you get at least one boost, with a good chance of getting more on top of that as long as you think you can stay in all day. The last two moves, while neither are STAB, provide very good coverage and should allow you to be a formidable force with enough Ancient Powering. The only other Poke (that I'm aware of) that could actually pull this off is Dunsparce, but obviously it doesn't have quite the same livability, and it doesn't pack as much of a threat. Of course, that does mean it's just that much more epic when it pulls it off. Note that in Gen V, this Togekiss set is incapable of hitting Chandelure if it's packing Flash Fire.
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:44 pm

Can't Togekiss hit Chandelure with AncientPower?...
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:17 pm

Oh. Right. lol I forgot that it serves as an attacking move.
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:16 pm

OK I have no clue if this will work or not, but I was thinking about using Stoutland.

Stoutland is a pretty awesome pokemon when you take a good look at him, pretty solid defences and attack stat, access to work up and yawn, plus 3 awesome abilities!

SO! here I go with my attempts at a Stoutland....

Landtank set

Stoutland @ leftovers
ability: intimidate.
careful nature.
movepool:

Substitute
work up/pursuit
yawn
Return/last resort/pursuit

ev spread: 252 hp, 200 sp def, 58 def.

Description: Pretty self-explanatory I believe. Yawn or sub depending on the opponent you face on turn one. Set up using work up, and start attacking with whatever attack you have. Pursuit combos well with yawn and can kill ghosts, so you can replace whichever move you want for it. Especially good when stealth rocks and or spikes are up. I believe it can take quite a hit with this ev spread, but you can always make him a pure def wall, or replace a move with charm.

Scrappydoggy

Stoutland@ salac berry
ability: scrappy (dream world)
jolly natured

Movepool:

endure
reversal
Last resort.

Description: Heck yeah, both reversal and last resort. Sure, the reversal/salac combo is a classic, but adding last resort into the mix makes things much more exciting! Plus, you get neutral coverage on pretty much anything thanks to scrappy!



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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:27 pm

=3 Darki, I use a similar Stoutland on my mono-Normal team with Return, Crunch, Reversal, and Endure with Sand Rush to counter Sandstorm teams...

Anyway here's one that I thought of... should be pretty self-explanatory


Galvantula @ Life Orb
Ability: Unnerve/Compoundeyes
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 Special Attack, 252 Speed, 4 HP
Electro Ball
Electric Net
Bug Buzz
Energy Ball/Hidden Power [Ice]

Basically the pount is to use Electra Net to lower their Speed and powering up Electro Ball (name confirmed) so it can still do a number on sweepers. Compoundeyes if you are deathly afraid of Electric Net's 5% chance of missing, but there's not really much point for it on this set. Unnerve could help against things like Wacan Gyarados, Tanga Celebi, Rindo Swampert, Yache Garchomp/Salamence, etc.



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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:15 pm

PeregrineMuon wrote:
That's quite true. I'm going to run the damage calcs on that, but Roopushin will certainly be very threatening to this set, and will probably force a switch. That's where a solid Roopushin counter will come in very handy.

The Conkledurrs seem to have disappeared due to the popularity of Reuniclus which basically completely counters it.
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:06 pm


Salamence @ Life Orb/Salac Berry
Ability: Moxie/Intimidate
Nature: Naive
EVs: 232 Attack, 20 Special Attack, 252 Speed
Dragon Rush
Earthquake
Fire Blast/Substitute
Hone Claws

A bit of a standard Salamence, but I love using this set simply because of all the options Hone Claws gives it. It's different in the way that it's not Dragon Dance, even though its moves and EV spread are still standard... (ranting) Standard or not, I still love it =3 Raising accuracy allows you to use Dragon Rush which is stronger than Dragon Claw and won't lock you in like Outrage. It also boosts Fire Blast's accuracy, however you can use Salac Berry with Substitute if you can find something to set up on. That didn't work out too well for me, but you can try it. This is also one of few times Salamence can use Moxie because most people refrain from using it due to it being illegal with Outrage.


Golduck @ Life Orb
Ability: Cloud Nine
Nature: Hasty
EVs: 252 Special Attack, 252 Speed, 4 Attack
Hydro Pump
Ice Beam/Blizzard
Cross Chop
Hone Claws

Another Hone Claws user =D Mixed Golduck so it can hit Blissey/Chansey harder with Cross Chop. The accuracy shouldn't be a problem with Hone Claws and you also get an attack boost. The accuracy boost also helps Hydro Pump and Blizzard if you chose it instead of Ice Beam, although it's risky if you don't have time to set up a Hone Claws. Cloud Nine also allows you to counter weather teams, most notably Sandstorm and Sun.


Rhydon @ Miracle of Evolution
Ability: Lightningrod
Nature: Careful
EVs: 144 HP, 16 Attack, 96 Defense, 252 Special Defense
Rock Blast
Dragon Tail
Rest
Sleep Talk

A good thing about Rhyperior's existence is that it allows Rhydon to use the Miracle of Evolutino item. Rhydon has pretty good attack already, but here I'm using a Defensive one. It's best used in Sandstorm and with Stealth Rock. Dragon Tail can help phaze and rack up entry hazard damage and Rock Blast is a good STAB move, with 90% accuracy in 5th Gen, it works better. it also breaks Subs while still doing damage which is helpful since Dragon Tail doesn't switch out Subs. Rest is recovery and Sleep Talk allows you to attack while asleep. The ability doesn't really affect thsi set unless you want to use it in Doubles


Last edited by PokeWorldDP on Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:40 pm; edited 3 times in total
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