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 Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]

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PeregrineMuon
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:33 pm

So, just out of curiosity, the 20 evs in Sp Att seem really random. Does that extra 5 points get you something special?
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:39 pm

It allows you to KO/2HKO.... something... don't remember what... I think Specially Defense Skarmory
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:57 pm

And of course the presence of Salamence overshadows Rhydon and Golduck Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:50 pm

Okay, so it's been a while. Anyway, this is one of my original sets that I came up with for 5th gen. I used it for a bit, and it definitely has some flaws. *cough, cough--coverage--caugh, caugh*

Antilead Ninetales @ Life Orb/Focus Sash
[Drought] [Modest/Timid] [252 Sp Att, 252 Spd, 4 HP]
-Fire Blast
-Quick Attack
-Solar Beam
-Substitute

Substitute is there to handle the leads that try to go for status moves like hypnosis and such, but could definitely be replaced for something that actually gives you the ability to take other stuff out, like HP Rock or Psychic, since being a fire type usually threatens the status leads like Roserade. It would also be nice to have a 3rd attacking move so that if you get Tricked a Choice item, you can actually turn the tables on the opponent and use it. Overall, you can really blow things to pieces with a STAB Fire Blast in the sun and having Solar Beam for backup can take out threatening rock types like Gigalith, if you play it right. It's important to note that if you come upon a Sturdy lead that also packs a Custap (like Gigalith), you want to start off with Quick Attack rather than go straight for the Solar Beam so that you break the Sturdy, then you can go for the kill without fearing the priority Explosion that would otherwise...wait. Nevermind. Disregard the last two sentence as the rubbish of a tired teenager. You'll outpriority with Quick Attack. BUT, if it--Gigalith--chooses to switch out, you'll regret not going with that Quick Attack first. Anyway, if you guys have suggestions as to how improve this, I feel like it could really shine if it's polished.

Also, does anyone know where I could find the current restrictions for 5th gen? Things like what's considered OU and Uber, and what's no longer allowed in terms of weather and abilities.
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:20 pm

Smogon's discussion forums/Pokemon Online's tiers are probably the best you can find but they're not official
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:09 pm

Okay, so I've not actually this one out...or done any damage calcs whatsoever...but I felt like posting it anyway. I'm rather tired of seeing the same sets for Latios and Latias, so this is a (feeble) attempt to fix that. I realize that this set COULD benefit from CM, but I'm trying to shy away from that.

Latios @ leftovers
[Levitate] [Calm] [252 HP, 252 Sp. Def]
-Luster Purge
-Roost/Recover (Same PP, so it just goes down to cool points)
-Toxic
-Refresh/Ice Beam/Thuderbolt

So this is just an unusual special wall, but it has pretty decent defenses, and I'm pretty sure it can pull it off fairly well. What puts this above other walls, though, is the incredibly high sp att stat that it packs. Without investment, I'm sure it packs a pretty little punch, but Luster Purge, aside from being STAB, also has a nice little side effect: 50% chance of lowering sp. def once stage upon hit. So not only can you effectively wall things--on the special side, that is--you can also dish out the damage if you want. In other words, where Blissey might wall a normal set, this thing has the capability to take it out. Hypothetically. lol But, hey, that's what this thread is for.

Going in the complete opposite direction:

Latios @ Lefties
[Levitate] [...something...] [252 Hp, 152 Def, 104 Sp Def]
-DRAGON DANCE!!!!
-EQ
-NOT Fire Blast/Draco Meteor/Dragon Claw
-Zen Headbut

Not the greatest physical movepool, but I figured if Smogon doesn't have it listed, I may as well put it out there. I prefer bulky, but that's obviously up to the trainer. Not a whole lot to say here....


Last edited by PeregrineMuon on Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:18 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Darned llamas...)
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:35 pm

I don't think Latias can learn Fire Blast...
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:17 pm

Oops. I'll fix that. Thank you for pointing that out.
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:17 pm

Okay, so I don't really like to post rampantly, but I feel inspired to put this one up, because I've used a variant of it before, and I think this could really put holes in things. Oh, and just to put it out there, I don't really stand for the tactics that this guy uses. Phazing has got to be my least favorite part of the entire metagame, but I guess I still want to improve it.

Tyranitar @ Leftovers
[Sand Stream] [+ Def, -Sp Att] [252 HP, 252 Sp Def, 4 Def]
-Curse
-Rest
-Sleep Talk
-Dragon Tail

Essentially, this works under the same principal as a CROcune, with the necessary ajustments. Basically, I had tried a wall set for Ttar before, and it worked wonderfully, but I couldn't get it to do enough damage to things. And the problem with packing just one offensive move--which is what you're left with after all of the other recovery/boosting moves--never gives you enough fire power to wreak havok, at least in most cases. But because Dragon Tail not only phazes, but also does damage, you can ensure that the opponent will be taking decent damage because they can't sit there the entire match with a resistance. And if you're worried about not being able to live a couple of hits, don't worry. This thing can live darn near anything you need it to, and with the proper team, you can switch in and out of things to get advantages left and right, since Ttar also makes a fantastic lure for some of the top threats. Speaking of team support, it helps--as it does with any phazer--to back this sucker up with entry hazards out the wazzoo.
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:21 pm

Similar to the Rhydon I posted earlier =3
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:29 pm

Ah! Yes! My apologies! My memory is quite bad. Yeah, it basically does the same thing. Yours has the advantage, though, of being able to break subs.
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Sun Mar 20, 2011 9:54 pm

Drifblim @ Flame Orb
[Flare Boost] [Timid Nature] [252 Speed, 128 HP, 128 Special Attack]

-Hex
-Charge Beam
-Will-O-Wisp
-Hidden Power Flying

OK, from a glance, this may seem weird, but I think it could be an effective set. Charge Beam is there to avoid complete wallage by Steels, while also having a chance to raise Special Attack. Will-O-Wisp, has two purposes; to weaken an opponent with a strong Physical set, and to make Hex a 100 Base Power Ghost move. Hidden Power Flying may seem the weirdest, but the only other Special Flying move Drifblim gets is Gust...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gyarados @ Choice Scarf
[Moxie] [Adamant Nature] [252 Attack, 252 Speed, 4 HP]

-Waterfall
-Earthquake
-Ice Fang
-Frustration

(If anyone has a better EV spread, let me know.)
A more advanced version of the standard Dragon Dance Gyarados. People usually favor Return over Frustration, but what's the difference? Anyways, the Choice Scarf with Max Speed will be able to outspeed basically everything you'll encounter, unless the opponent already rediculously fast, or has a Scarf itself, and is faster than Gyarados in terms of Base Speed. I'm a little skeptical about this, though.

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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:41 pm

Hmmm. Interesting Drifblim set. I really haven't looked much into its new ability, unfortunately. Do you happen to know if it causes you to be immune to burn damage? I'm supposing not, since Poison Rampage and Guts don't give immunity, but it would really help Drifblim if it does cause that. The main problem that I see with the set is the fact that it's going to be pretty frail. Running with maximized speed is definitely necessary, but even if you manage to get set up with your Charge Beaming and all, you won't be able to use it for long, as you're going to get revenge killed fairly easily. To give you an idea--and I realize this is a fairly bad example, but an example nonetheless--a Weavile using Ice Shard (simply to demonstrate with a move that doesn't one shot) will deal roughly 85%, and if this is a revenge killer, that means you've been in there with a couple of turns with burn damage. Meaning you're a goner. I really like the idea of the set, though, it just doesn't look like it's bulky enough to pull off its intended purpose, because it relies on Charge Beam and WoW to do serious damage. I like the idea, though. It might be neat to simply drop the HP Flying--which, while it is STAB, doesn't provide a whole lot of extra coverage that I can think of off of the top of my head--and replace it with Pain Split. Since you still run Charge Beam and and Flare Boost, you can ramp your Sp Att to obscene levels without bothering to invest evs in it, allowing you to redistribute those into your defenses. To further increase bulk, I'd recommend moving the HP evs into your defenses as well, because you've got plenty of HP naturally. So, in other words, I would run a max defense, max special defense set, with a nature that's positive to defense, allowing more setting of the up. Speed, then, becomes unneccessary. You just have to make sure you're setting up on the right thing. Another random question: do you happen to know if Flare Boost counts as a stage of Special Attack, or does it just increase it a raw 50%? I'm pretty sure it counts as a stage, but I just thought I'd check. You could run a similar set with CM with potentially killer results.
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:27 pm

Flare Boost does not give Burn immunity. Driftblim can't legally have the Dream World Ability Flare Boost with Pain Split. I believe that abilities (like Guts, Toxic Boost, Unburden, etc.) make it just the raw 50%, not necessarily counted as a stage... hope that answered everything Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Fri Mar 25, 2011 3:54 pm

Well, I know beyond a reasonable doubt that Guts actually does count as a stage, since I've tried Belly Drum + Guts Hariyama (doesn't work). From what I've read on Smogon, Toxic Rampage works the same, providing a stage rather than a raw boost. That's why I'm leaning towards Flare Boost being a stage. So I guess I'll have to try it out in the game some time. Anyway, thank you for pointing out the fact that you can't pack Pain Split on that set. Ma bad! So, since it doesn't get any form of recovery past Rest, it may be worth your while to pack Explosion, even if it is nerfed. It ends up doing about twice as much damage as your STAB, and will do a much better job of dealing with the things that are most likely to wall you, since most will be invested in special bulk rather than physical. This, though, means that I'm going to totally rescind the EV spread I mentioned earlier (unless you like it), because speed does become more necessary when you pack Explosion. The original EV spread that Plat posted would work quite well, except that I'd put the EVs in HP into special defense (rather than physical defense since you pack WoW) or attack, optimizing either livability or the damage from Explosion.

Drifblim @ Flame Orb
[Flare Boost] [Timid] [252 Spd, 128 Sp Att, 128 Sp Def]
-Charge Beam
-Explosion
-WoW
-Hex
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Fri Mar 25, 2011 5:52 pm

So, should I stick with Timid, or go with Hasty Nature to make Explosion slightly stronger?

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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:38 pm

I would stick with timid, since it's primary function is to sweep. I'll look at some damage calcs, but unless there's some random KO that a positive nature will net you, speed is going to be your best option, I think.
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:16 pm

I moved this topic to the Academy Perry buddy as these sets are incredible ideas that members can learn from and apply. Keep up the great sets. Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Sat Apr 02, 2011 8:28 pm

Why, thank you, Sabe! I was incredibly confused there, for a minute. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:29 pm

lol sorry about that buddy. It just made sense since many can learn alot from trying these sets.

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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:05 pm

Long time no rant. Anyway, here goes. I've been itching to make a quirky Gyarados that still works (hypothetically), and here it is:

Stallados @ Leftovers
[Intimidate] [Careful] [252 Hp, 252 Def, 4 Sp Def]
-Rest/Thunderwave
-Attract
-Toxic/EQ
-Dive

Okay, so this basically takes Gyarados' role and flips it on its head. The idea of the first listed moves is to scare something out with the Intimidate, toxic on the switch, attract if possible, and then Dive to your heart's content while the opponent slowly wastes away. Essentially, with the first set, you only get a 50% chance to hit the Gyara on every other turn. Meaning you'll wind up being hit--in optimal circumstances--every 4 turns. That means that you'll be getting a quarter of your health back from lefties every time they hit. Again, that's optimized, since you're dealing with apparent chaos and you're assuming they pack the opposite gender. It should be noted that I put Rest on this set very tentatively. The likelyhood of you living through your rest on a Poke that isn't attracted to you is pretty slim by my reckoning, considering Gyarados is such a threat that most people make sure to have a counter to it at all times. Meaning one good zap and you're gone. Also, there was an important change to the game mechanics this gen: the sleep counter gets reset when you switch out. This means that you can't burn turns of sleep, switch out when they have their counter come in, and they come in later with reduced sleep time. If you want to wake up, you're stuck there for a full 2 turns, a sitting duck to anyone carrying a good sweeper. However, if you manage to take out any counters, the viability of Rest becomes MUCH greater. You can stay in there, set up, and wreak havoc all you want...hypothetically. The second listed moves, which are intended to go with each other (I was just too lazy to make an entirely separate entry for this set), are perhaps more devious than the first. This time, rather than relying on Toxic to do your dirty work, you're doing it yourself with Dive and Earthquake (you could also use Bounce, but it doesn't have great coverage). However, you can pull off a killer Parattract combo, mimicking parafusion (except that it nets you WAY more cool points). Combine this with a 2 turn move like Dive, and you've got yourself a frustrated opponent. Again, this set, too, relies on you having the counters out of the way. If you can be 2 or even 3 shotted, the likelihood of this set working goes down. So get rid of anything packing electric and/or rock type moves, and you should be good to go.


Last edited by PeregrineMuon on Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:08 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : AAAAAAHHHHHH!!!! Grammmmmmmmaaaaaaarrrrrr!!!!!!)
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:02 am

Wouldnt it be better to dump more points into special defense? Intimidate is a +1 defense for you anyway unless you are facing a foe with Defiant.
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:12 am

Audino w/ Normal Gem

-Regeneration, adamant nature -252 hp, 252 atk , 6 def evs -

-Trick Room
-Last Resort
-
-

Ok, so I was planning an audino team when I came up with this set. Admittedly, its a bit risky with taunt and everything, but nevermind that! Audino's attack is mediocre, I know, but a stab normal gem hit from now-boosted last resort will hurt a LOT despite the low stat. It could be described as gimmicky to some, but audino's natural "bulk" should allow it to survive most attacks. Plus, this fella's last resort hurts more than your average bronzong's explosion nowadays.

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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:05 pm

The thing is, Normal Gem is a one time use. Maybe Silk Scarf would help a bit more?
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PostSubject: Re: Hypotheticals! [Sets for Competitive Fifth Gen Battling]   Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:16 pm

nah, this audino isnt supposed to last. It's goal really is only to set up tr and go out with a bang, without the actual explosion

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